Did you account for Disciples huge advantage in shields?

Yes, 1 on 1 the LRM is a better ship. However, with equal amount of time and equal amount of resources spent the Advent player can produce many more Disciples than the TEC can build LRMs.

This numerical superiority on the side of Advent evens the odds against TEC.

Remember, this is a SPAM vs SPAM comparison.

This is a SPAM vs SPAM comparison (not a ship vs ship).

I'm not saying the Advent is better. I'm simply saying it is balanced.

You are ignoring the shield factor.

Javelis LRM Frigate = 280
Disciple Vessel = 425 WINNER

By the way, I have fended off every LRM spammer in the past few days with Disciple spamming.

I have never been overran by LRM spammers eversince the new patch 1.03 and adopting this tactic.

Well, the numbers give it a shot, I'll go test this out online next time I see a LRM spammer and report back.

As the game goes on, neither the Disciple or LRM are effective.

Also, no "repair bay" is needed by the Advent to balance this contest.

LOL
There really is not much more to say.
LRM are the counter to Light Frigates.
What will you propose next? Mass strike craft to overcome flak spam?

See, this is the EXACT thing I'm addressing

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/304456

LRMs kill light frigs period. Obviously, if you completely outnumber the LRMs with your light frigs you'll win, but against a competent player, that's not going to happen. Please stop spreading your brand of 'truthiness'. Test it against good players before concluding it as a valid counter.

I just had a game last night with a guy named Rexus who was utterly convinced that disciples beat LRMs thanks to some of your posts. He wouldn't listen to anything I said and kept spewing stuff he read in the forums instead. That someone could be so grossly misinformed prompted me to write my above post.

825 effective hp vs. 780 effctive hp.

LRM with 19.5 dps (against target) and 780 hp against disciple with 6 dps (also against target) and 825 hp.


Assuming the degree of shield mitigation affects both ships more or less equally, then the LRM will kill the disciple more than 3 times faster. Or, to put it more quantitatively, the disciple will deal approximately 240 damage to the LRM by the time it's been iced. Do the math and we find that one TEC LRM can actually match 2 disciples at the same time, and ice both of them with like 60 HP left.

Shield mitigation probably tips things a bit in the disciples favor though. Disciples have a much lower damage per volley, so it's going to take longer for them to bump up a LRMs shield mitigation. So I bet in a real world fight the two disciples are going to barely come out on top, but one of them is definitely dead, and the other one is going to be hurting. However... You can build a lot more of them. A -LOT- more of them. Faster build time, you start building sooner, no research required, no military lab required...

I'm glad you found an advent counter for early game LRM spamming. But once crystal production steps up in the mid game and the LRM spammer comes closer to matching your ship per ship production I'm guessing this would drop off fast. Basically you're capitalizing on the fact that the LRM-er is going to make his move before he reaches that point. So, awesome. But it's not a function of unit stats, it's a function of economics. The shield/hp/dps values of the disciple are more or less irrelevant, the only relevant fact is that you can build a shitload more of them by the time the average LRM-er gets ready to attack. It might be worthwhile to try out spamming seeker ships instead. They will deal the same damage to a LRM, they have the same HP, and they will take much less damage. Granted the disadvantage of this is that you wouldn't have a prayer of taking the fight to him, as anti-light damage does almost nothing to structures. But, you've countered his fleet for a fraction of the cost, so...

But, all of that having been said...
Thanks.

Pff, you can beat any strategy by massing X scouts.

Actually, the real way to make sure an LRM never does any irreparable damage to your fleet again is to send a single Halcyon capital ship at them. You can send multiple Halcyons if you want too as well as drone hosts.

Everyone reading this is now about to type a response slamming this approach for it being naive and outright stupid. If you sent a Halcyon or drone host to do a head on fight with an LRM blob then I would completely agree. However, if you issue a circular move order to the Halcyon or drone hosts so that they move around the outer ring of the gravity well, then the LRM's will have a ton of problems getting a shot off because of the way targeting is set up. They'll end up chasing your ships and about the only thing they'll hit is a couple of drone hosts. The chance to hit during a pursuit like this declines and it gives friendly fighters more time to do their work and take out LRM's. You can use this strategic positioning to your advantage and even bring in other forces to phase jump in behind the LRM's and get in a surprise attack if your opponent is not micro-managing the battle.

Remember, order your ships to fly around the outer ring of the gravity well and try to make something between a pentagon and octagon for their flight paths. Every time your ships have to turn they stop so limiting the number of turns is critical. By the time the enemy finds out what you're doing he'll have lost a bunch of LRM's. Some people think this is a cheap strategy and promptly quit, but I don't see how it's any worse than an LRM blob. This is just another example of how you can outplay your opponent by thinking outside of the box.

Yes, it is a smart tactic to keep your carriers on the move. This can make the difference in a close battle where you have sufficient carriers and strikecraft present to take out the LRM's.

BUT a single Halcyon? ....either the LRM's are not in sufficient quantity to be a threat, in which case your Halcyon can kite them or just engage them directly, or they are in sufficient quantity to be a threat, in which case they will kill your Halcyon. LRM's are not real maneuverable, but they are fast, and they have very long range. While they won't get in as many shots while you move, moving does not make you invincible.

Out of all the "light frigs" the disciples have the best chance against LRM. This is designed, I assume, because advent cannot LRM spam effectively. This is not to say that an advent doing disciple-spam will really have a chance against a TEC doing LRM spam. Yes yes, in any single game, a advent spamming disciples can beat a TEC player doing LRM-spam...skill level, economy, etc, all play a role.

How about doing a simple test: Pick 20 LRM, add up their supply/crystal/metal/credit costs. Find how many is a "reasonable" number of disciples for a similar supply/crystal/metal/credit cost...Do a battle between them...See who wins. My prediction? You will have 12-14 or so LRM left and 0 disciples. How do I know this? Because we've (Cykur, myself, the IRC sins community) have tested LRM vs cobalts...Not exactly disciples, but still, the results should be close enough.

You can still win with disciple spam after they are LRM-spamming, but don't kid yourself...Your winning with a handicap.