Cart Search
New Topic
Forum Home | Login
Michael Austin
Michael Austin
Join Date 04/2003
0

Twilight like SoaSE - Achievements a must

March 4, 2008 9:48:43 PM from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I've played GALCIV 2 and Dreadlords to death, and pre-ordered Twilight.  I also just purchased SoaSE and had an unexpected surprise:

These sandbox games REALLY REALLY REALLY benefit from a HUGE acheivements list.  Instead of a story, or some small trick you can build an entire empire based not on economy or military, but on beating all 8 minor races in a huge universe. 

Just a thought.  That achievements list in Sins is keeping me going on what would have been a very short playtime game.  I think that GalCiv (which is superior in my view) could benefit even more.
Locked Post
Search this post
Advanced Search
Subscription Options
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Michael Austin
Michael Austin
Join Date 04/2003
0
Reply #1 March 5, 2008 10:12:57 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Anyone else in love with the idea of 100+ acheivements to fight for in TA?
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Michael Austin
Sole Soul
Join Date 12/2007
+124
Reply #2 March 5, 2008 10:18:32 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
If I had any idea what on earth you're talking about, something tells me I'd be all for it. But I haven't gotten Sins yet, as I want to play the not-yet-released demo first.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Michael Austin
Michael Austin
Join Date 04/2003
0
Reply #3 March 5, 2008 10:26:49 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
It has a system with small challenges:

Beat the game with only capitol ships
Raid a pirate base
Beat 3 enemies, while allied with a forth, and manage to share baked space ponies with all.

Just little challenges that make an interesting challenge and context to play the next game. Enough of these, and the games longevity is pushed WAY out there - especially for sandbox games. I didn't like achievements on the Xbox, but they seem to actually work where the game has no "story", just a need to tweak your play style or interpret the game system in an interesting way.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Michael Austin
Sole Soul
Join Date 12/2007
+124
Reply #4 March 5, 2008 10:31:29 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
So, I'm probably oversimplifying, but in essence, a single player MVL, with the possibility of being vastly more specific. Maybe even make it an extension of the MV, so it's not entirely single player.

Nice.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Michael Austin
Vinraith
Join Date 03/2006
+12
Reply #5 March 11, 2008 3:42:54 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I've never found achievements to be particularly motivating, and the achievements in Sins (which mostly involve playing the game in ways that simply aren't fun) are particularly weak. Then again, there aren't many things about Sins that are much fun once you've played it a few times. You're smart to wait for a demo, Sole, I wish I had.

Anyway, no, no particular interest in achievements in TA. Expend that time and effort elsewhere.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Michael Austin
Neilo
Join Date 04/2006
+128
Reply #6 March 11, 2008 5:09:20 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Sunds like the medals given in C&C Generals & Zero Hour. Well if that is the case then i think it is a fantastic idea, C&C G&ZH sure had me playing longer than i would have chasing after all those medals.

I think having these in sandbox would be great.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Michael Austin
Michael Austin
Join Date 04/2003
0
Reply #7 March 11, 2008 6:10:05 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Vinraith, I was actually talking about acheivments in a game I LIKED. Acheivements in a game I didn't like would suck, but then anything extending play time there would be a bad idea. Fortanately, Sins is a delight for me, and thus the pleasure derived from acheivements. Besides, achievements shouldn't take that much time to add. I'm sure they are using an event driven system, so the checks would just be added at the appropriate event. Coming up with good achievements (which could be added to in future patches) would be the more difficult component.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Michael Austin
Michael Austin
Join Date 04/2003
0
Reply #8 March 11, 2008 6:23:38 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Here's the deal: I'm a working guy with a needy wife (they all are). I love sandbox games, but I lose interest after a while because if I go on a business trip for a couple weeks, I lose my context and aren't sure what to do next. With achievements, I can come back and say "Ah, I haven't fried the space ponies yet". And thus I get out my pony-be-gone frigate, attach a galactic size wok, and hunt space ponies. What fun! It's a mini campaign that puts NO constraints on my method or fun. Great for obsessive, non-competitive gamers. I want my check marks, but I don't want to have to play multi-player to get them.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Michael Austin
Zenicetus
Join Date 02/2006
0
Reply #9 March 11, 2008 6:29:31 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
If the devs were going to spend any additional time beyond what's already slated for the TA expansion (which probably won't happen anyway), then I'd like them to just keep working on making the AI a challenging opponent. That's what will build long-term replayability into the game, and there's still a lot of work to be done in that area.

Just my opinion, but I think Achievements are a cheap, tacky substitute for good game design that keeps the player hooked. Also, and maybe this is just me... but I like the open-ended nature of games like GalCiv2, with lots of different paths to victory (or defeat). I don't like being railroaded into one particular strategy just to pick up a medal.

Players can always set up their own achievement goals, with house rules like "win without ever declaring war," or "win without ever building anything larger than small hull ships," or "protect all other races of your own alignment".... so it doesn't necessarily have to be formalized in the game.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Michael Austin
Michael Austin
Join Date 04/2003
0
Reply #10 March 11, 2008 7:01:06 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
That's exactly what I'm saying: I don't want to make my own goals. Games are my brain-dead time. I'm not a kid anymore, so I don't spend my day fantasizing about different ways to play a game, I just shutdown for an hour or two. Remember the casual player: We pay money, we want fun given to us. If I want to choose my own fun, I'll write my own game (yes, I am a software engineer and have written games along with device drivers. I decided game development wasn't fun and device drivers were. Go figure. I'd probably like developing tools for game developers, though).

Achievements are nice: You can ignore them, I can love them. They are pretty much non-obtrusive unless you want them to be.

The other thing achievements give are the challenges that you stated above, but the proof that you did it (unless you cheat, but then it's really quite meaningless). Achievements are relatively easy to add, even if it's in a patch, harmless to detractors, beneficial to people like me, and fun for the developers to think up even if not to code.

I think the worst part is, the people who would like achievements are not likely the ones who will post to this site and defend them, so the developers will see a skewed opinion.

One stupendous guy is working on AI, others can work on achievements. Stardock still has excellent post release support. Release TA, then a patch with achievements for added joy... YAY!
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Michael Austin
jamala
Join Date 07/2007
0
Reply #11 March 13, 2008 5:25:38 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
I agree that achievements are an excellent way of gently nudging players to try out aspects of the game that they might otherwise have overlooked. I know that I sometimes fall into the trap of finding a strategy that works, repeating it for several games until it gets old, then maybe moving on to another game instead of trying to vary my play style. If the game uses achievements to help remind me that I haven't tried playing the game in some different ways then that is a positive thing.

I think the idea certainly has enough merit to be given serious consideration.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Michael Austin
DethAdder
Join Date 02/2004
+73
Reply #12 March 13, 2008 6:45:01 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I thinks it's a good idea. Whether it actually doable any time before GCIII would have to be seen, but it sounds like something that would be easier from a coding standpoint than many of the suggestions I've seen around.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Michael Austin
drrider
Join Date 12/2006
+1
Reply #13 March 14, 2008 5:00:45 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
That's exactly what I'm saying: I don't want to make my own goals. Games are my brain-dead time. I'm not a kid anymore, so I don't spend my day fantasizing about different ways to play a game, I just shutdown for an hour or two. Remember the casual player: We pay money, we want fun given to us. If I want to choose my own fun, I'll write my own game (yes, I am a software engineer and have written games along with device drivers. I decided game development wasn't fun and device drivers were. Go figure. I'd probably like developing tools for game developers, though).


So, basically, you make more money than 99.9% of all game developers, and you get corporate benefits!

drrider
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Stardock Forums v        Server Load Time:   Page Render Time: