ZzZGuy

Join Date 01/2008

Non CD/ Internet game protection?

What happens without internet access or you upgrade several times?

Yeah, this wouldn't work (or be legal in regards to the EULA) the way it seems to be getting described if you're buying multiple copies for folks on your TGN account.

If you're getting this for a LAN of PCs that you own, then first thing is that 1 Sins serial is good for 2 PCs. If you're buying another license to play on 4 LAN PCs, then that's fine. You'll need to put your email address in the Stardock Support email form (https://www.stardock.com/support) and it'll send you an email with all your serial info. You'll need to register the game manually on the other two PCs since SDC can't deal with that itself, however.

1Spartan - You should email sales@stardock.com about that stuff.

From https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/?aid=174068#1432789

And just like Stardock's other games, Sins of a Solar Empire will have a day 1 bonus update that includes new maps, modding tools, the forge editor, and more!

From https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/?aid=174078

I have several questions.

1- How does the game detect what PC it is on?

2- Is it only the multiplayer that will be effected? Or do i need to be connected to the net and put in the cd key to play skirmish?

3- If i upgrade my computer/get a new computer more then 2 times, will i no longer be able to play the single player and/or multiplayer part of the game?

4- How are you going to prevent people with a legit copy from downloading the updates and sharing them on the net? And what happens if your upload speeds are reduced to dial up speed due to some problems?

5- So your leaving out content (and important updates?) delibertly when the game launches that can only be obtained from your website with the CD key.

What about people who do not have internet access?

Are you giving them a flawed game on purpose?

I currently move around a lot, i can go months without internet access but still have my computer with me (mail it to myself or get someone else to do it)? I also format my computer on a regular basis (i don't mind doing it and it fixes a lot of problems), ideally with internet access but sometimes I screw something up and it's the best option. I could live with regular updates and patches that i can't get, but knowing that content has been left out on purpose that will improve gameplay that i can not access will REALLY tick me off.

6- PLEASE please.... please tell me you didn't put the CD key on a scrap peace of paper or a cheap paper CD sheave that i through away reflexivel. Putting it on the manual or CD is good.

I was ready to burn my World in Conflict game case and CD because i had thought i had lost my CD key that they put on a [insert profanity] CD sleeve after i had formatted my computer. (WiC is a VERY good game, but only online and you need a CD key for that).

-edit- bold doesn't work well in quotes -edit-

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RonLugge

Join Date 05/2004

+50

5- So your leaving out content (and important updates?) delibertly when the game launches that can only be obtained from your website with the CD key.

No. They release a game, but due to the time frame between printing the manuals, making the CDs, etc etc and it actually getting into our hands, they've had time to make a patch. As a result, they've bundled various "extras" with the patch.

2- Is it only the multiplayer that will be effected? Or do i need to be connected to the net and put in the cd key to play skirmish?

The only real DRM stardock includes with its games is the need for a valid CD key to download a patch. With Sins, you have an additional multiplayer limit that you are required to have a unique CD key for every single player online, but when playing on a LAN you can have 2 computers using one key.

What about people who do not have internet access?

To put it frankly, people without internet access are screwed from the get go. No patches, no multiplayer, no mods, no nothing.

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It is all done by email. You can also backup your local copy to CD if you feel you will lose your Internet connection for a prolonged time period. THe system works. I have had an account with SD for about a decade and used it on many PCs and I have never had any issues. SD support is first class and has always responded with 24hours of any emails sent to them. You simply cant do better then SD support wise. There is more I could say but I think Ron got the rest of it well.

Please note I'm not speaking as a fanboy (although if Frogboy wants a PR maven we can talk), I'm speaking as a jaded consumer that HATES to get screwed and cheated and I always make a big deal out of stuff that pisses me off especially when I feel I have been wronged.

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@Ron Lugge

For #5 question. From the wording of Frogboy's post (/ news on the homepage), it still sounds to me like content has been deliberately left out.

It's bad enough with a game like X3 that was released WAY to early and is unplayable without being patched (i am not implying Sins is going to be released way to early), but when you start leaving out content from the release version (v1.0) then i start eying my pitch fork.

Perhaps clarification would help in this matter.

A- What maps are in the patch compared to what is in v1.0. And will the random map creator be used more or less then a pre-made map.

B- What is the "forge editor"? I've heard it mentioned in relation to halo 3 but i do not know what this is.

C- And more?

D- Where any fixes left out prior to the "point of no return" that could have been implemented but where not and instead left for the "day 1" patch to encourage people to buy the game.

I have no experience with modding games so i will not comment on "modding tools".

For the #2 question, if a lack of CD key does not effect single player then that is fine. I have no problem with requiring a CD key for multiplayer.

And for your last quote, I disagree with leaving content out of a game on purpose expecting everyone to have internet access. That is why i have made this post, I hope that there has been a misunderstanding in what i have read.

@1Spartan

So, I can download the patches and everything else that i am required to use a CD key to obtain only through "Stardock Central" and can burn it off onto a CD? That sounds quite reasonable.

But i fail to see how stardock would keep the updates available ONLY through their site if you could do that, as it would be uploaded across the net. I am not familiar with the system, could you plase explain this aspect?

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kryo

Join Date 05/2003

+458

Some background first. The game as it is on the retail disc has no copy protection. At all. You don't have to put the disc in. You don't have to enter the CD key. However you are required to register your serial to get updates. No worries about losing it once you've registered it; you can retrieve it as often as you need via support.stardock.com.

After installing an update, you need to activate it. An activation is good on the windows installation it is made on, regardless of hardware changes, so if you frequently reinstall windows, using a disk image would be preferable so that it'll be the same 'install' of windows each time. You can reactivate as frequntly as you need; if you don't have access on your sins machine, you can copy a block of characters to removable media and activate by email through another machine. There is a generous limit on activations. If you legitimately run into it (most people shouldn't--I'm installing and uninstalling builds all the time for testing and I've only ever hit it once), you can simply contact support and have them reset it.

Internet access is not required to play single player or LAN games (obviously it is to play online...). It makes the update process much smoother if you have it while patching, but it's not required there either (email+removable media, as above).

Nothing has been 'intentionally left out' to spite offline users. As noted by the other posters, there is a gap between gold and release during which the developers continue working on the game for the first patch. That's pretty standard procedure in the games industry. However the game is as stable and solid in its release form as any other I've ever played.

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RonLugge

Join Date 05/2004

+50

D- Where any fixes left out prior to the "point of no return" that could have been implemented but where not and instead left for the "day 1" patch to encourage people to buy the game.

I sincerely doubt they've done that -- its "normal" for the devs to be hunting for bugs right up to and even past the "gold" date, and thus you have a day 1 patch of all the stuff they fixed in between. Most developers don't have Blizzards... power behind them, allowing them to delay released indefinitely.

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ZzzGuy - When you backup you also get the updates as well. It is all done via SDC. Which as I have just learned is going away shortly to be repalced with a new system so I cant speak about it.

Anyway, to answer your question, yes a few do. A very, very few people have UL stuff on-line but that does not worry SD at all because it always continues to develop products and does not charge people for the updates. Plus SD has some serious street cred and nearly all P2P site admins simply take the stuff down when they become aware of it.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

I think any quick survey of GalCiv users will show that 99% of them are very happy with the system.

GalCiv II did the same thing. The shipping game was hardly "flawed". It was the game in the box that averaged a 4.5 out of 5 star review from dozens of different sources.

What we do is reward customers with additional CONTENT after release as we make it. Not just a one-time thing but as an ongoing thing.

For users who don't have access to Internet, well, I guess they won't have any idea what they're missing.

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@ kryo

Thanks for the response.

How the games detects what machine it is on clears up a lot of worries.

if you don't have access on your sins machine, you can copy a block of characters to removable media and activate by email through another machine

I think you're saying that this is the method to install and update/play online on a different machine then what the game was originally. As long as this is documented in the manual OR a readme file on the game disk and is not a horrible pain in the @$$ to do, then it sounds good.

Friendly non combative support, always a good thing.

Internet access is not required to play single player or LAN games (obviously it is to play online...). It makes the update process much smoother if you have it while patching, but it's not required there either (email+removable media, as above).

So i can go to a internet cafe and have the patch/patch link emailed to me, download it there and copy to removable media (or download it from a computer store, which i did once). And i do not have to worry about a fresh Sins install being "registered/activated" in order to install the patch?

@Ron Lugge & kryo

I am also well aware that no game (even blizzards) is released without bugs. It is good to know the patching process is already in full swing and new content is being made to boot. On Monday i'll look at what the dat 1 patch contains.

Oh, and i still have no idea what the "Forge Editor" is, and I'm not expecting the devlopers to dig up how many

This should be my last round of questions, thanks to everyone who responded.

-edit- the thread was on reply #5 when i posted this -edit-

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Oh, and i still have no idea what the "Forge Editor" is, and I'm not expecting the devlopers to dig up how many

The Forge Tools is basically the modding suite that Ironclad will be releasing at launch

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I think any quick survey of GalCiv users will show that 99% of them are very happy with the system.

GalCiv II did the same thing. The shipping game was hardly "flawed". It was the game in the box that averaged a 4.5 out of 5 star review from dozens of different sources.

What we do is reward customers with additional CONTENT after release as we make it. Not just a one-time thing but as an ongoing thing.

For users who don't have access to Internet, well, I guess they won't have any idea what they're missing.

To cut things short, if it works fine and no one is ripping out hair then i'm happy.

I am not familiar with your system. I was simply concerned that A- i will not be able to put patches on CD for use if i am without internet access, B- content was being left out of v1.0 on purpose (content of major value), C- upgrading would require a new copy, D- off chance that i would need a cd key for single player.

(note that i am NOT re-asking the questions stated above, just listing them)

Only question that i have left is if i can still update my legit copy without the internet (download it from a internet cafe), -edit- thanks Annatar11 for telling me what the forge editer is. -edit-

Once again, thanks for the response.

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Btw, i am not a doubter of this game, i am actually REALLY looking froward to it. But with the DRM flying around atm like chimps and something unmentionable at the zoo, i have begun to boycott any game with unreasonable DRM which is why wanted to clarify your anti piracy measures. I do not believe that your anti piracy measures are unreasonable, but i will not say it is good until monday when i get the game and update it.

btw
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=80&threadid=2147072&enterthread=y

(Anandtech computer tech forum that i post on from time to time -edit- above link is to a thread i made on the Sins game -edit-)

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Stardock, being an indie developer/publisher, will usually be quite open to working with you to resolve any issues. After all, they can easily check if your serial # is legit

You won't be getting copy/pasted corporate dribble from emailing their support

The only limit of course would be what's technically possible or not, but I do seem to recall some discussion a while back confirming that you'll be able to go to a place with internet access, download the game/patch, then bring it back to your own computer.

Obviously I'm not the authority on the matter, and I think most/all of the Stardock gang is off at this hour.

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(Anandtech computer tech forum that i post on from time to time -edit- above link is to a thread i made on the Sins game -edit-)

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Yarlen

Join Date 01/2005

+369

Only question that i have left is if i can still update my legit copy without the internet (download it from a internet cafe

Yes. You just need to register your serial with us the first time and after that you're set.

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