Pyromancer420

Join Date 04/2007

New hull catagories...

Is it possible to..?

Is it possible to create new hull catagories other than the default (tiny, small, etc...)? I get the feeling its not.

I had the idea of creating a branch off of medium building and making 'enhanced tiny/small hull design' then off of massive building, or whatever it is, have enhanced medium hulls. But as I said I get the distinct feeling I'm pushing into hardcoded territory when it comes to actually being able to provide the new hulls. What I'm thinking is make use of the new 'field' techs that come into play with holding the larger hulls together and saying that it can be used to make the smaller hulls a little more durable HP wise and provide extra space relative to hull size. Like, enhanced tiny would get a few HP's but no extra space; enhanced small would get the extra HP's and one extra space; enhanced medium would get four extra spaces and a few more HP's, etc... If possible I would like to take the this little tech tree subsection all the way to 'advanced large hulls'

Why the extra space you may ask..? I was thinking that the field installed on smaller hulls would allow for less mechanical structural integrity and provide a tiny bit more space to squeeze something in. No spaces on the tiny hull because its so small that any space gained was used to install the field generator.

A neat idea I thought to help expand on available options and also involve a little more depth into the technical advancement of hull design. New techs mean smaller hulls can hold just a little more, be just a little tougher, and less costly to build and maintain than the larger hulls. But still better, without a huge cost increase, than the basic small hulls.

I kind of like making my early ships look a little rough and later designs more sleek and defined in style, so thats where I got the idea.

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It is not hardcoded, you can add new hulls, they are defined in GC2Types.xml, found in the Data\English directory. Just copy and paste the existing hull, then edit what you want.

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You could make it so that those extra tiny/small hulls you get when you research... can't recall which hull tech... are those enhanced versions. Makes more sense (since you don't get them from the start, only after some research into hulls), and involves less changes.

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I'm confused what more hulls you're actually making? like more hulls in between tiny, small, medium, and large?

like a medium-small, that is half-way between a small and a medium...

It doesn't sound that easy to do, not sure how miniaturization comes into play with those xml files, might have to modify more than just one xml.....

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Hmmm, it seems to me that researching miniturization "enhances" the hulls quite a bit.

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But miniaturization as it is implemented isn't really miniaturization, it doesn't make any real sense. It doesn't miniaturize (is that even a word?) anything, it creates more space in hulls. Some items do have a fixed size, so...
It's one of the abilities that should go IMO. The real miniaturization comes from researching further into the branch, so there is actually a doubling effect at work here. What miniaturization is doing now should have been accomplished through researching further into specific hull techs.

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Tetrasodium

Join Date 03/2006

+17

The problem is that you can't have multiple requirements for a tech. You effectively make the hull tech branch useless beyond it's +hp bumps if you add better versions to miniaturization.

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You could still have an advanced fighter with more basic hitpoints and/or more space for equipment, but to balance it you would need to increase the cost of the hull.

The tech which unlocks the extra tiny and small hulls is Advanced Hulls.

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nothing wrong with how miniaturization works as is. Instead of them constantly changing sizes on items, they add to the overall hull, which effectively means you can add more stuff to them as you progress down the miniaturization line....

Its not a huge progression, but there is a definite difference, and your ships will be tougher than the enemies generally if you have them beat on minituarization, even if you have the same tech in weapons/armor....because you can put more stuff in your hulls....

And that is the point of researching it.....putting more stuff in your hulls....

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kryo

Join Date 05/2003

+458

But miniaturization as it is implemented isn't really miniaturization, it doesn't make any real sense. It doesn't miniaturize (is that even a word?) anything, it creates more space in hulls.

While it may not operate exactly as the name implies, the net effect is the same. Better, even, as adjusting the individual component sizes would lead to rounding issues (10% miniaturization would be useless for many parts, but when that bonus is applied to the available space instead, you get a much better result).

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Someone actually worked around that by increasing sizes by a factor of 10 IIRC.
But if you read the rest of the post, I point out 2 facts, one is most modules have a fixed weight and so the system is not really consistent - and mounting those modules on small and tiny hulls is a cheesy byproduct of that issue; and another is that it's actually a duplication of effects, because there already *is* miniaturization in researching higher tech levels of the same item. I don't see any references to that in the replies to my post...

The tech which unlocks the extra tiny and small hulls is Advanced Hulls.

Thanks. One more reason for the enhanced hulls being better, if they're *advanced*

And that is the point of researching it.....putting more stuff in your hulls....

Let me quote myself, so there's no misunderstandings:

But miniaturization as it is implemented isn't really miniaturization, it doesn't make any real sense. It doesn't miniaturize

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Didnt realize I'd started a conversation, I've been too busy addicted to the game to notice.

I never had galciv one nor any civ game at all so I'm still figuring stuff out. As I played I found out what miniturization was actually doing for me (only had the game a couple of weeks now) and I started wondering if my hull idea was even worth it.

It was actually quite easy to add them in. I added what I am calling for the moment 'enhanced' hulls. It isnt really any size difference from its basic counterpart, still has the same logistics, just has a little more space and is a little tougher then the norm. I didnt know miniturization was increasing hull size, I thought it was just something that needed to be researched in order to unlock other things.

What I did was branch off of medium scale building into enhanced tiny/small hulls (oh by the way I use 'enhanced' because the initial idea was to involve 'advanced' hulls also. But there is already an advanced hulls tech... I was considering changing its name) then off of large scale building with enhanced medium hulls. Thats as far as I got so far just to check the idea out.

Now after that is when I started seeing what miniturization was doing and as I said I began to question my idea, unless I took out miniturization.

I tend to agree though miniturization as it is does accomplish an effect that isnt quite unrealistic. I think its implementation. The way it works now really doesnt make much sense but its end result does. I do agree that it being accomplished through further hull tech makes the journey to the end result make more sense.

How far it should go I am not sure yet but I think I am going to take out miniturization and see if I can find a way to slip all the way up to 'advanced' hulls somehow.

What I have so far is:
Enhanced Tiny, xtra space:0, extraHP:2
Enhanced Small, xtra space:2, extraHP:4
Enhanced Medium, xtra space:4 extraHP:8

You can easily see the progression I was using, and there is also an increase in base price but not in logistics cost. But I dont think those numbers will hold up well with miniturization removed, the increase is simply too little as is to justify it I think unless I add more tech to increase it a little more before reaching the 'advanced' stage.

Any suggestions???

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Ok I pulled out all the miniaturization tech and went in and checked out the hulls in a 'battle of the gods' game... The avaiable space is significantly lower without miniaturization but still not so low that with the smaller size of the weapons in the advanced stages of the tree you cant make a decent ship...

So I started looking at the tree and thinking how I was going to slip in the extra hull techs. This is what I came up with on my first attempt so far...

Basic Hull Design(Tiny Hull) > Small scale building(small Hull) > Medium Scale Building(Medium Hull) > Enhanced Hull Design ;splits into; Large Scale building(Large Hull) ;and; Enhanced Small Hull Design(Enhanced Small Hull)

Large Scale Building continues into > Massive Scale Building(Huge Hull) > Advanced Hull Design(Advanced Tiny Hull) ;splits into; Advanced Small hull Design(Adv. Small Hull) ;and; Reinforced Hull Design

Enhanced Small Hull Design(Enh. Small Hull)continues into > Enhanced Medium Hull Design(Enh. Medium Hull)

Reinforced Hulls continues as normal

Advanced Small Hull Design continues to > Advanced Medium Hull Design > Adv. Large hull Design > Adv. Huge Hull Design

I hope that isnt too confusing...

Why no Enhanced Large Hull or Huge???
-Well for one it comes before large hulls... The second reason is a storyline one, the 'enhanced' field technology can only be applied to a certain ship size... It takes and advancement in the tech to make the larger hulls stable enough (or something along those lines)...

Why not a new branch that just takes you from enhanced to advanced???
-Then you could simply bypass the rest of the basic hulls altogether... What I am trying to create here is an alternative..: Do you go with large hulls..? or do you branch off and rely on the smaller enhanced hulls..? In a long game on a big map you will definately need to go larger but for the shorter games on smaller maps it does become a choice... Down the road in the longer game you get another small choice, go into the advanced hulls or make the ones you have even tougher... I plan on trying to refine things a little so that there actually is a descision to be made about it...

Comments..? Suggestions..?

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