Economy - How far can you push it? » Forum Post by BinaryAlgorithm

Selling stuff to other players.

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I think the OP wanted to see how you can raise money in the normal way, not by selling stuff..

But, IMHO, I always though that having morale bonuses is much better than any economic bonus. Morale allows you to have more people on planets, which means much more taxes.

Example: Think of it, you already have a +10% economic bonus (ressource? race?). If you take another +25%, you increase your revenue by only (0,25/1,1)%, since I don't think the additionnal 25% is composed with your former 10%. However, if you take a 25% morale bonus (speculation about the numbers), you may have 20% more peoples, and they ALL benefits from whatever economic bonuses you have.

The point is, to have a strong economy, you must not put all your points into economic bonuses. A good balance of morale, pop. growth and economic is usually much more profitable..

telling you, in my actual Yor game, I poop 1500 BC each week, which is much, much more than any other player. My research is kinda low, however..

You should have seen when I made 6000 bc/week because of the Economic prosperity random event

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Bragging about making tons of money per week is missing the point- if you're that stinking rich, you should be building more Research Buildings or Factories.

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Money is money is money.

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The point is, to have a strong economy, you must not put all your points into economic bonuses. A good balance of morale, pop. growth and economic is usually much more profitable..

Nope. Morale and population growth bonuses will speed economic growth, but they'll have no effect on its ultimate strength. Think about it...that morale bonus is more than matched by a single high end morale building. And, depending on the map, you're likely to have maxed out population on every planet way before the end of the game, with or without population growth bonus. Meanwhile econ bonuses enhance both your base tax income *and* the effectiveness of each stockmarket.

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Example: Think of it, you already have a +10% economic bonus (ressource? race?). If you take another +25%, you increase your revenue by only (0,25/1,1)%, since I don't think the additionnal 25% is composed with your former 10%. However, if you take a 25% morale bonus (speculation about the numbers), you may have 20% more peoples, and they ALL benefits from whatever economic bonuses you have.

I think all the bonuses are added together in your economy ability and THEN take effect, no matter if you got a 10% and one 25% bonus or a 35% bonus.

Also why does +25% morale mean +20% population? i know you can grow more pop with more morale....but why +20%? And its rather hard to do only do 20% with farms producing tons of food.

Bragging about making tons of money per week is missing the point- if you're that stinking rich, you should be building more Research Buildings or Factories.

You can buy everything in the game if tech trading is on^^ some whoa re playing at suicidal even dont do research at all and jsut buy techs from AI. its just a style of playing.

Nope. Morale and population growth bonuses will speed economic growth, but they'll have no effect on its ultimate strength. Think about it...that morale bonus is more than matched by a single high end morale building. And, depending on the map, you're likely to have maxed out population on every planet way before the end of the game, with or without population growth bonus. Meanwhile econ bonuses enhance both your base tax income *and* the effectiveness of each stockmarket.

more moral CAN mean more population. also if your pop grows faster you will reach the max earlier=more money. Also pop growth helps you raising troops alot. Going only for eco may not be the best way.

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One thing nobody mentioned is to choose Neutral for your society's ethics, and then build the Temple of Neutrality. It gives you a percentage of all the trade done by any Neutral civilization.

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Best economic results can be expected when playing the Drengins or Torians (native +25% morale) with +30% economy and the Federalist party. I usually throw in +70% population growth, but that doesn't affect the upper limit of tax income in the end.
Then go evil and build the "Mind Control" building ( = +100% economy galaxywide - yes, you read right). Note that tax income only increases by the square root of population, so planets with 15-20b population and lots of stock markets are the most profitable ones usually, depending on how much tiles they have. Farm planets with class 30+ are better used with 100b population though.

All other factors have been mentioned I think.

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One thing nobody mentioned is to choose Neutral for your society's ethics, and then build the Temple of Neutrality. It gives you a percentage of all the trade done by any Neutral civilization.

The Temple of Rightousness and Malice do the similar thing for their respective ethical civilizations, I think. Its usually only worthwhile (except for coolness), though, if there are at least 2 civilizations that share your alignment, and you are playing on at least a Large galaxy (to increase trade income, of course, because you will only get a fraction of theirs').

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I have the best thing to get rid of the problem you're having.just churn out ships and tell the other players to pay tribute to you if they do, do something like 80 bc for 4 months or more, if they don't then declare war get a few planets and charge them for a peace armistice then go against the minor races and so on.this not only supercharges your economy but expands your empire and will also improve relations with other palyers as they will be afraid of you.it can even close deals on alliances and sometimes even enforces them.military is the only true victory!

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population is useless for economy because taxes go with the square root of population
so a 4x higher pop rate will only double your taxes, which is simply not worth building all these morale buildings
if you play with only one planet it can hold 10b ppl anyway, i'd stick to that or build max 1 farm
more is simply wasted, tax buildings are way better

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if you play with only one planet it can hold 10b ppl anyway, i'd stick to that or build max 1 farm
more is simply wasted, tax buildings are way better

It depends on how much space there's left on the planet (or how much of it you want to use for taxing purposes) though. You'll have more tax income, influence and available troops when putting up to 100b people on the very large planets (including special tiles) for example.
I tend to build one farm on all planets with class 10 and above, but that depends on other factors (like morale resources and trade goods) too.

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Temple of Neutrality
S_Description>This Galactic Achievement diverts a percentage of all other neutral races' background tourism revenue to your civilization.

It is not trade income, it is tourism income.

Big difference. Tourism does not bring in nearly as much as trade.

The Temple of Evil and Temple of Righteousness both bring in a percentage of the trade income, so they are both worth quite a bit more than the Temple of Neutrality.

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Trade income? Tourism income?

Both the Temple of Evil and Temple of Righteousness aren't worth much compared to Mind Control.

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How do you reduce the population on a planet, or at least the pop growth rate? In my last game I had all 95-100% approval except for one planet which was at 30b people. I don't understand if I should build farms so that there is enough food for that many people, or if I should build morale tiles to increase the approval. It would be a lot easier if the buggers didn't breed like bunnies.

What am I missing?

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You control the population with the number and types of farms.
You can increase population growth with bonuses and certain special buildings, but you can only decrease it by avoiding those things.

Your planet of 30b peeps is already past the cut off point for morale, so you would only have to build some more VR Centers to get the morale up. Adding more farms will only increase the population further. More food production = more people.

That is one reason never to build a farm on a farm bonus tile, unless you also have room for 6-8 virtual reality centers as well. A single Advanced Xeno Farm can support 15b with only a single VR center - none if you have a morale resource or two and a few of the morale improvements combined with a stock exchange or two.

If you want to lower the population on a planet you can either destroy a farm or offload them via colony or transport ships. If you keep them in ships you lose the tax revenue from them, or you can send them to other planets to increase population on other worlds.

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That is one reason never to build a farm on a farm bonus tile, unless you also have room for 6-8 virtual reality centers as well. A single Advanced Xeno Farm can support 15b with only a single VR center - none if you have a morale resource or two and a few of the morale improvements combined with a stock exchange or two.

The tax rate varies this greatly. If you were only at 30% tax, you could have 25 billion or more on a world with only two VR centers (and not many other bonuses).

Edit: Er, wait, maybe not. I seem to remember... oh, screw it. My point is, the tax rate changes things.

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I always get it up to 80%, then build what I need to keep it there.

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Yeah, Mind Control pretty much blows the others out of the water. +100 economy is like 3 stock exchanges in one, saving me some tiles for other stuff. One farm is probably worth it on colonies, but on the homeworld it takes extra morale buildings to maintain it (and the morale bonuses decrease). Tough call. I tend to play as Thalan, with a 21 tile world after upgrades, so I could probably support 1 farm. I've noticed that the maximum rate of population growth seems to be about +250 million per turn with +50 growth (from trade goods) and max morale (barring events). I've had 70 billion on a planet at once, which is touch for the AI to crack

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+100 economy is like 3 stock exchanges in one

Don't forget, the economy bonus is valid for all your planets, not just the one you built it on!

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I've always thought that race bonus is applied last, and in a sense bonuses stack. I am unsure though. Say I'm federalist (+20 econ) and +30 econ bonus as well. I have a planet with 100 BC income base. Now I've also got Mind Control (+100% econ), an Ecnomic Capital (+50% econ), and a stock exchange (+30% econ) and nothing else let's say.

What is my actual income?

(100 + (100 * 1.0) + (100 * 0.5) + (100 * 0.3)) = [280] * 1.5 (race bonus) = [420]

Or do I get:

(100 + (100 * 1.0) + (100 * 0.5) + (100 * 0.3) + (100 * 0.5 race bonus)) = [330]

In other words, is it +xx% to your base income (like a building bonus), or +xx% to your final income (like a multiplier)? If +30 economy is like just adding a stock exchange to each planet, then it might not be worth the points that I could use for something else.

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A good way to raise money is to stay ahead of everyone else in research. You can sell each technology to each other player one at a time. It takes a lot of time, but the profits can be huge.

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Hey nice, I enjoyed reading that.

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I've always thought that race bonus is applied last, and in a sense bonuses stack. I am unsure though. Say I'm federalist (+20 econ) and +30 econ bonus as well. I have a planet with 100 BC income base. Now I've also got Mind Control (+100% econ), an Ecnomic Capital (+50% econ), and a stock exchange (+30% econ) and nothing else let's say.

What is my actual income?

I think the bonuses are summed up and then applied once:
100 * (1.0 + 0.2 + 0.3 + 1.0 + 0.5 + 0.3) = 100 * 3.3 = 330.

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I think the bonuses are summed up and then applied once:
100 * (1.0 + 0.2 + 0.3 + 1.0 + 0.5 + 0.3) = 100 * 3.3 = 330.

No, the planetary bonuses (from stockmarkets and econ capital) are summed then multiplied by the base income, then the whole thing gets multiplied by your race bonus. If you've researched different government forms, then this total gets multiplied as well! This makes the economy ability race picks very powerful.

I've always thought that race bonus is applied last, and in a sense bonuses stack. I am unsure though. Say I'm federalist (+20 econ) and +30 econ bonus as well. I have a planet with 100 BC income base. Now I've also got Mind Control (+100% econ), an Ecnomic Capital (+50% econ), and a stock exchange (+30% econ) and nothing else let's say.

Check your race stats. Usually, buildings that give race wide bonuses like that add to the race bonus and will show up in the stats (same goes for mining resource bonuses). Don't know about the mind control center in particular as I've never built it! But if it does go the race stat, you should get

100(base)*1.8 (stockmarket+econ capital)*2.5(federalist+race bonus+mind control)=450

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