Cart Search
New Topic
Forum Home | Login
contingency40
contingency40
Join Date 04/2006
0

Oh my God that was crazy

The craziness people! The craziness!!

April 17, 2006 6:14:36 PM from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Alright, so after reading a few strategy guides on how to start off I thought I'd try normal again after getting whipped so many times. Things were going alright, I wasn't doing well, but I wasn't getting eaten early on either. So after a while I notice the Torians are killing off the other civilisations, both the Torians and I had the odd skirmish but I always managed to successfully beg for peace before anything really bad happened. Finally it was just me, the Yor, the Drath and the terrible Torians. The Drath had smartly allied with the Torians and of course the Yor fell and surrendered their worlds to me. Which I promptly lost. Now when the Torians finally came after me most aggressively I noticed something very interesting. Their frigates and battleships were immensely powerful and there was simply nothing I could do to stop them so I decided to take a look at their stats properly and this is what I got.

Frigate
Medium
Beam/Shield: 18/8
Mass Driver/Armour: 1/0
Adv. Support x2
Warp Drive Mk. III x1
Shields II x3
Railgun Mk VI x1
Plasma III x7

--------------------

Battleship
Large
Beam/Shield: 20/25
Mass Driver/Armour: 1/0
Adv. Support x2
Warp Drive Mk. III x1
Shields III x9
Railgun Mk. VI x1
Plasma III x8

Now I tried duplicating this by cheating to get all technologies and I found not only couldn't I fit in all that junk, even with all those items, you still wouldn't get the same attack power and defence. You'd get barely half of their power and defence. Eventually I decided to check out their abilities and it turns out they have something very interesting, their miniturisation bonus was +105%. However their weapons bonus was only +29%.

This sounds like a rant but it's not really, it's just a really long prelude to a question. Basically, what I want to know is, how on Earth did the Torians manage to get such a huge miniturisation bonus, and how did their weapons and shields become twice as powerful with only a +29% weapons bonus?
Locked Post
Search this post
Advanced Search
Subscription Options
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
contingency40
Lawvo
Join Date 03/2006
0
Reply #1 April 17, 2006 6:20:24 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Isn't there a racial bonus to miniturization that can be selected at startup?
Also I've seen a galatic wonder or trade good that can boost it.

Try looking at these two to see if it's still possible.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
contingency40
contingency40
Join Date 04/2006
0
Reply #2 April 17, 2006 6:25:40 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Well there's only one as far as I know and it adds something like 15 or 25 to it. And I looked and couldn't find any racial bonus to miniturisation and there are no abilities that I found that add to it. Also I found the Torians only had two starbases mining military resources. I destroyed them both at once and their power and defence reduced only slightly. They still had insanely powerful stats for even their small ships.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
contingency40
Morberis
Join Date 03/2006
+1
Reply #3 April 17, 2006 6:26:27 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
The Torians might have captured multiple miniturization superprojects.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
contingency40
justkevin
Join Date 03/2006
0
Reply #4 April 17, 2006 6:30:34 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
The weapons look right. Plasma (2 damage) x 7 = 14. 29% bonus equals 18. Same for the battleship.

I think you can get 110% miniaturization from researching all the techs plus the hyperion shrinker.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
contingency40
Alfonse
Join Date 02/2006
+12
Reply #5 April 17, 2006 6:31:08 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Isn't there a racial bonus to miniturization that can be selected at startup?


No. Well, not one you can select (unless this changed in 1.1).

However their weapons bonus was only +29%.


Plasma III x7 = 14 damage. 29% of 14 = 4 (rounded down). 14 + 4 = 18.

No problem. Same for the battleship. A +29% military bonus is nothing to sneeze at.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
contingency40
alexwilber
Join Date 02/2006
0
Reply #6 April 17, 2006 6:35:55 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Each race can build its own Hyperion Shrinker (+25% miniaturization or so I think). If the Torians had conquered quite a few other races, they could have ended up with several Hyperion Shrinkers, which could explain their big miniaturization bonus.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
contingency40
Moosetek13
Join Date 03/2006
+48
Reply #7 April 17, 2006 6:41:06 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
They researched the miniturization tech branch, and probably had the Hyperion Shrinker also.
Also, there are anomolies that give increases, and if you build a couple more survey ships early in the game you may snatch some of them.

I always go for the research facilities early on, because once you have superior research abilities you can advance so much quicker. You may just be going the wrong route early in the game, and so lag behind in the really important areas.

If you get Xeno Ethics and align with Neutral, you can get the Neutrality Learning Centers, which are by far the most powerful research facilities in the game.

Those ship specs you showed are not hard to achieve. My first ships of the game could wipe those out easily. But I do not build ships until I have done my research first.

Watch the research graphs to see how you are doing in that area.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
contingency40
Tototot
Join Date 02/2006
+4
Reply #8 April 17, 2006 6:42:06 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
How do the Torians ever win? In my game they are great at making colony ships.... thats about it though.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
contingency40
moral55
Join Date 04/2006
0
Reply #9 April 17, 2006 6:53:40 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
l there's only one as far as I know and it adds something like 15 or 25 to it. And I looked and couldn't find any racial bonus to miniturisation and there are no abilities that I found that add to it. Also I found the Torians only had two starbases mining military resources. I destroyed them both at once and their power and defence reduced only slightly. They still had insa



You can get even more if you capture the other Civs miniturization shrinker. just build yours first, them catpture theres as they pop up.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
contingency40
Alstein
Join Date 07/2004
+55
Reply #10 April 17, 2006 7:03:03 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Perhaps the Shrinker should be a Galactic and not a small Wonder?

Either that or make the shrinker just work for the planet it's built on?
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
contingency40
Veblen
Join Date 03/2006
0
Reply #11 April 17, 2006 8:03:24 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
+10 Basic Miniaturization
+15 Enhanced
+15 Advanced
+15 Expert
+20 Ultimate
+25 Supreme
+15 Hyperion Shrinker

So +105 is probably the Miniaturization techs up to Ultimate (+75) and two Shrinkers.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
contingency40
Supreme Shogun
Join Date 11/2005
+5
Reply #12 April 17, 2006 8:15:45 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
There is possibly an unseen bonus, there's a colonization event where you can get a starship bonus.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
contingency40
Rody
Join Date 04/2006
0
Reply #13 April 17, 2006 9:54:00 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
in my game, torians seem to exapand pretty quick and no matter what happens, they seem to initiate attacks (so much for being good) so i just conquer them before they conquer me (or I am in good alignment)


Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
contingency40
arksulli
Join Date 03/2006
0
Reply #14 April 17, 2006 10:22:48 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I've noticed the Torians seem to be game out in one of two different ways. Either they gobble up a lot of planets at the start and inevitably turn into a monstrous killing machine empire that engulfs any civilization next to them... or they get a handful of planets and become really nice peace loving folks who go out of their way to establish trade routes and otherwise be nice.

Bottom line, you have to keep an eye out for the Torians mid game more then just about anyone else. If they are about to go on a jihad you might want to land lease a few ships to their current target to give you some time. They certainly can be the Empire that expands the fastest.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
contingency40
Alfonse
Join Date 02/2006
+12
Reply #15 April 17, 2006 11:01:04 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Perhaps the Shrinker should be a Galactic and not a small Wonder?


No, the game should simply work correctly. If you capture a planet where someone has built a small wonder, it should disappear. Or, failing that, be non-functional.

It's a bug, plain and simple.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
contingency40
pedxing
Join Date 01/2006
0
Reply #16 April 18, 2006 12:07:14 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
It's a bug, plain and simple.

actually, it seems more like a "design decision". doesn't it?

a bug would be if they meant for something else to happen, and it didn't.

but if what happens is what was intended, it's not a bug, it's just a design decision you don't agree with.

i happen to agree with it. unless it unbalances the game, why should me invading a planet cause a developed building to stop working there, depending on what i have built on a different planet on the other side of the galaxy?

and, really, does the ability of a player to gain multiples of items that otherwise they can only have one of, does that unbalance the game? since really, anybody can do it, human or AI?

i was surprised by it the first time it happened, but now i expect it. and it feels right.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
contingency40
ajbera
Join Date 03/2003
0
Reply #17 April 18, 2006 1:17:30 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
There's a way to mod the game so miniaturization is an option when choosing racial bonuses. Look in the modding forum.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
contingency40
echelon
Join Date 04/2006
0
Reply #18 April 18, 2006 10:34:45 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
hmmmmm

does the stuff include military res?

in one of my games i managed to bag 3 of them with res sector. walked over my enemies with those bonuses
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
contingency40
ignuss
Join Date 01/2006
0
Reply #19 April 18, 2006 2:22:18 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
No, the game should simply work correctly. If you capture a planet where someone has built a small wonder, it should disappear. Or, failing that, be non-functional.

It's a bug, plain and simple.

Saying that something you don't like is a bug is getting really old.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
contingency40
Sandlapper
Join Date 03/2003
0
Reply #20 April 18, 2006 11:26:20 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Don't know if this is relevant, but if the Torian ships are fighting a lot of battles, then their crews are getting a lot of experience, which makes them stronger, right?
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
contingency40
astat
Join Date 11/2003
0
Reply #21 April 19, 2006 7:56:14 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
only in terms of hitpoints
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Stardock Forums v        Server Load Time:   Page Render Time: