alexander_west

Join Date 03/2006

Politican Imbalances in 1.1 Beta

It seems that with the recosting of the different racial abilities, the political parties have not been re-adjusted. Some are worth a lot more than others, now. It seems the target number used to be 4, which most were equal to, but now there is a pretty wide range between 3 and 7.

Federalists (4 pts.) - +20 Economy is worth 4 pts.

Industrialists (4 pts.) - +20 Social and Military Production are worth 2 pts. each.

Mercantile (4 1/3 pts.) - +20 Trade is worth 3 points, while +20 Espionage is worth about 1 1/3 pts.

Pacifists (6 pts.) - +20 Influence is worth 4 pts. and +20 Social Production costs 2 pts.

Populists (7 pts.) - +20 Morale is worth 3 pts and +20 Diplomacy costs 4 pts.

Technologists (5 pts.) - +20 Research is worth 4 pts. and +1 Sensors costs 1 pt.

Universalists (4 pts.) - +5 Economy is worth 1 pt, +10 Hit Points are woth 1 pt., +25 Luck is worth 1 pt., and +10 Population Growth is worth 1 pt.

War Party (3 pts.) - +25 Hit Points is worth about 3 pts.

I think it would be a good idea to re-balance these.

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True, but points also need changed for items. Growth is worth a lot more in 1.1 than it was in 1.0x .

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

Good analysis. Will think about it.

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I'll have to stop and think about the rest of the list, but I agree that you really can't go wrong with Populists. I have a particular strategic fondness for the stock-terran populists. I also agree that war party is insanely weak. I would consider giving war party a weapon bonus to go with their HP bonus.

EDIT: I would also like to note that I considered the Populists to be super powerful and the War Party to be super weak even BEFORE this patch.

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Yes thank you this makes Populists seem like a clear choice, which i fact is probably the best party except maybe for Universalists if you are going mega pop growth.

Also war party is inferior to Universalists. Although I have played with maximum HP on lower levels, at hgiher levels the extra HP doesnt make that much difference (Especially after crew lvl nerf). Weaposn tech and minutarization are more important than HP in higher difficulty.

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Maybe if the war party also got a small miniturization bonus, then they'd be effecitve. +Hp has its random values, but to be able to produce superior ships in general seems to be a good bonus to the "War Party." Of course if they get elected against you that could seriously fudge your ship designs, but hey, more reason to not screw up your election cycle.

Populists diplomacy allows for diplomatic domination of most other races, even without the patch and especially if you rush for diplomatic translators. Of course, this balances somewhat with the power of other parties. Maybe if the diplomacy boost was lowered to +15 or +10, keeping the very effective moral boost which translates directly into tax income.

The other parties appear more balanced, I just feel that +diplomacy is very significant and +hp isn't.

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Yes, some rebalancing would be a good idea.

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I've always been picking Populists for the moral.

My strat has been revolving around high moral to boost taxes and keep the growth rate high.

Love having 50%+ at 79 tax rate or 100% (growth bonuses now) at like 39%

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I would have to disagree about Populists being the best choice. There is clearly one ability that trumps all others, because it is the only resource in the game --- Economics. The Economics picks and the Federalist party SERIOUSLY unbalance the game. The money is what makes the economy run. You can always ramp up production through mining starbases, so nothing is wasted --- besides so much else needs spare money lying around (starbase upgrades, bribing opponents, buying things from opponents, upgrading ships) so having a bonus of 50% economics which you can get thru racial picks and the Federalist party is a serious imbalance.

As far as the Populist choice goes, both Morale and Diplomacy advantages are soon dwarfed by all the things you can do that can pump up the stat --- when you get 100% bonus from techs and Universal Translators early in the game, the extra 20% effectively improves diplomacy by only an extra 10%. Morale can be boosted similarly.

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I would also like to add that due to how bonus production is handled in 1.1 beta, having Economic benefits leverages production even more... compare having, say 25% Economics bonus compared to 25% all-production bonus (which you can't get anyway). Half of that all-production bonus has to be paid for (by what?). Building mining centers only helps you if you can afford to use all your income. But with the econ bonus, you get, say 25% more base production, probably through using bonuses from starbases ---- so effectively, you are increasing production by 37.5% (minus the cost of the constructors needed to create the starbases of course).

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I'd rather have the double population growth early game then the ecomonic bonus helping later on.

However I will have to try with the econ bonus. Maybe it will let me lower the tax rate and still have pos income with a 100% approval more often. (Last few games I ran at 100% the whole game)

Oh yeah I try to keep spending at 100% always.

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If you are running at 100% spending and have a big surplus (which I have been guilty of, by the way) you are not maximizing use of your economy. Build more econ starbases to pump up your production! Remember half of that bonus is free....

I am thinking that pop growth may be another thing that can really pump you up. Maybe I will save some of my picks for that one next game. Of course, you can also get the Aphrodisiac trade good.

One thing I did in my current game (painful as Terrans with tech trading disabled, I am in the end game now) is to use any excess colony ships I have left over after colonizing (as in, drat! The computer beat me to that planet, again!) to ferry pop between my home world and the world that will be my econ capital. I also built several entertainment centers on that world to keep its approval rating at 100% (remember, that doubles pop growth in the 1.1 beat).

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I went through and re-adjusted the parties. Except for the Populists and Federalists, they're all 6pts now. Federalists are at 5 because I feel the economics bonus is just too high.

Federalists: +30 Economics
Industrialists: +30 Military, +30 Social
Mercantile: +25 Trade, +30 Espionage
Technologists: +25 Research, +1 Sensors
Universalists: +5 Economics, +10 HP, +25 Luck, +10 Pop Growth, +20 Loyalty
War Party: +25 HP, +20 Soldiering, +20 Repair

I'll post the text for the XML tomorrow.

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You're assuming the race point options are the ones that are better balanced. Optionally you could assume the party options are better balanced and adjust the race point picks to match the party bonuses.

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BladeVenom,

You raise an interesting point. I have started another thread to discuss how much different racial abilities should cost.

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DisplayName,Description,Model,ColorRed,ColorGreen,ColorBlue

6
Industrialist
The Industrialists are the antithesis of Technologists. Industrialists receive a bonus to production capacity.
gfx/Government/Industrialist.png
Technologists
6:30 7:30
8:-25
210
210
210

7
Universalists
The Universalists try to be everything to everyone.
gfx/Government/Universalists.png
Pacifists
0:5 23:25 5:10 2:10 27:20
10:-30
84
242
81

0
Federalists
The Federalists are big believers in having the government be somewhat distributed. They tend to be fairly expert in internal financial matters. Selecting this party will give your civilization a 20% boost to your economy.
gfx/Government/Federalists.png
Populists
0:30
0:-20
59
133
202

1
Populists
The Populists are the party of the people. They care. They really do. They believe in focusing on the needs and fears of the people and as a result, they bring a 20% bonus to morale and a 20% increase in your diplomatic skills.
gfx/Government/Populists.png
Federalists
11:20 4:20
11:-30
116
170
79

2
War Party
The War Party sees the alien races for what they are: vermin that must be controlled. The best defense is a good offense. We have a manifest destiny to control the entire galaxy. Choosing this party will give your civilization a 50% bonus hit points for your starships.
gfx/Government/WarParty.png
Pacifists
12:25 16:20
12:-25
199
64
47

3
Pacifists
The Pacifists are strong believers in peace. Any civilization capable of interstellar travel must be peaceful. Disagreements and warfare between civilizations is due to misunderstanding. Choosing this party will increase your social production and influence by 20% each.
gfx/Government/Pacifists.png
WarParty
9:20 6:20
9:-20 6:-20
176
108
182

4
Technologists
The Technologists believe that all our problems can be solved with technology. That is why the Technologists give an impressive 20% boost to research and +1 to sensor range.
gfx/Government/Technologists.png
Mercantile
8:25 14:1
8:-20 14:-1
220
224
114

5
Mercantile
The Mercantilists understand the true power of hyperdrive - trade. Exporting goods and culture to other civilizations will make them more dependent on our prosperity for their own success. Mercantilists receive a 20% boost to trade and they enjoy a 20% bonus to espionage.
gfx/Government/Mercantile.png
Technologists
10:25 15:30
10:-20 15:-20
219
136
28

Edit your "PoliticalParties.xml" file to have your "bonus" area read the same as mine.

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Tetrasodium

Join Date 03/2006

+17

I usually go with the iconians and tech party, the +20 tech +20 tech the two gives generally lets me push way ahead in the tech tree and get more and more powerful the further ahead I get. A lot of the time I can make virtually invulnerable ships eventually.

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Generally it's not hard to max out your economy even with starbases, Populists make far more of a difference in the beginning of the game as you can get more cash via tech trading and more money via taxes. Also your diplomatic ability helps you get through wars and what not, allowing you to strike at the right time.

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The most potent combo I have found is the following layout:
Populist Party, +50% Economy, +10% Planet Quality, +15% Morale.
This lends me certain distinct advantages that are cumulative with eachother; I gain an impressive bonus to morale which allows me to ramp up tax income, then input that immense income into research and production capabilities from planets that are balanced to support the use of such an impressive economy. The Planet Quality effectively gives me a whole free planet for every 10 planets of my own. Not to mention an early game Diplomacy Bonus to tech trade to my advantage.

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